The Rest Is Money

Given the militaristic ambitions of Russia, China and America, how close are we to a catastrophic trade shock?  Even without such a shock, do we face years of higher inflation because of the new frictions and costs in global supply chains? And why is the British government the last government to end the tax break exploited by SHEIN and Temu? 

Robert discusses the hidden and important vulnerabilities of globalisation’s complex trade networks with Ed Conway, Sky News’s Economics Editor and author of an important new book, Trade World

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Bella Soames and Tom Whiter
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Is Trump’s handling of America’s 40 trillion debt burden about to start a global financial crisis? Why is US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent selling Euros to buy Japanese Yen? And why are Western leaders worrying about Japanese interest rates going up?

As credit conditions in the US drive up borrowing costs across the world, Robert and Steph talk to hedge fund boss Patrick Boyle about what’s going on and how Burnham and Healey can safeguard public finances and protect us from economic fallout. Plus, did Trump really suggest military intervention as a way to control interest rates?

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Bella Soames and Tom Whiter

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Why has the Al growth-at-all costs plan hit a credibility wall? Is this really about safety? Or are Al bosses trying to keep out more competition? Is pacing realistically enforceable across borders? And could this make tech companies like anti-competitive banks? Plus, where does all this leave presidents Trump versus Xi?

After a dramatic week in the world of Al with apocalyptic warnings and stock market falls, Steph and Robert analyse Dario Amodei's essay on 'why we must pace the frontier' and look at what his proposals would mean for the future of Al. Plus they try to suss out whether the UK has a role in all this.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Vasco Andrade

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Bella Soames and Tom Whiter

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How much of a buffer does the chancellor have now? What taxes might we need to put up? How does the tax burden on UK workers compare to other countries? Why might middle earners need to pay more?



Ruth Curtice from the Resolution Foundation is back to tell us about what the Rachel Reeves tax rises did to the UK tax wedge and where this leaves John Healey now.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producer: Bella Soames

General Manager: Tom Whiter
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The chancellor says we're turning a corner, but into what? He wants ministers to take more risks, so what does that mean? Why was their nothing that directly addresses the UK’s vulnerability to a debt crisis? The North is getting a new fund for businesses to scale up - will it make a difference? And what can we learn from microchipping cats?

Robert and Steph dissect the Chancellor's first big speech announcing plans to remove barriers for investment, cutting red tape, tackling risk aversion and getting PuFins to invest more in the private sector.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producer: Bella Soames

General Manager: Tom Whiter
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are we at risk of a global financial crisis? What’s driving it? And why is the UK being punished more than other countries? Is reforming the pensions triple lock part of the answer?

It’s been a wild time on the bond markets, with UK gilts yields at record highs. Robert and Steph explain why global inflation, the state of government borrowing and US tech firms turning to the debt markets for AI build out, is a big deal for the UK. Plus they discuss what it means for the chancellor ahead of the Budget on the 28th October.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Bella Soames and Tom Whiter
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Former Prime Minister Gordon Brown says fixing broken communities is an economic emergency, but how do we do it?

Burnham’s fiscal devolution? Could social impact bonds work? How do we extract more tax from the super wealthy? What about the shattered world order—can that be mended? What would he say to Trump now if he were PM? And as the man who gave independence to the Bank of England, does he think it’s still fit for purpose?

Gordon Brown talks to Steph and Robert about his new book, The Future Starts With Us, looking at what needs to happen to rebuild our broken communities and fractured world order. Plus, what this all means for places like Middlesbrough.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Lorcan Moullier

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Exec Producers: Bella Soames and Tom Whiter
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Is it possible for us to shape how AI is used rather than have tech firms decide for us? Should the UK government be looking to create our own ChatGPT? Or would open source AI be better for public services? How do we make sure we don’t hand over all our valuable NHS data to a US tech firm?

Dr Laura Gilbert CBE – senior director of AI at the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change talks to Steph about why we should stop asking experts to predict the future of AI because they’re rubbish at it. She also argues for a National Open Source AI Lab. Plus, how she saved the government £40 million pounds in half an hour when she was a civil servant.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Bella Soames and Tom Whiter
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Does Burnham’s government have a credible growth plan? Are the fiscal rules still fit for purpose? How can Whitehall be reformed for the AI age - and who will pay tax if AI leads to widespread job losses?

Robert discusses the major challenges facing Burnham and Healey with Lord O’Donnell, former Cabinet Secretary under three British prime ministers.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. https://Accenture.com/Spotify-UK

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Bella Soames and Tom Whiter
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How damaging to us is the obsession of Anthropic, Google and Open AI with creating AI super intelligence? How can political leaders set a new path for AI, that would enrich workers rather than replace them? And is the falling birth rate actually good for us?

In the second part of Robert’s interview with Nobel prize-winning economist Daron Acemoglu, about his influential new book, “what happened to liberal democracy”, we learn whether AI can be tamed to prevent most of the rewards going to trillionaires.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. https://Accenture.com/Spotify-UK

Buy tickets for The Rest is Fest:⁠ https://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/whats-on/the-rest-is-money-live/ ⁠

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Bella Soames and Tom Whiter
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How do we revive living standards and restore confidence in liberal democracy? Is the link between productivity and wages permanently broken? What is working-class liberalism? Why should Andy Burnham’s first budget raise taxes on capital while cutting taxes on employment? And why are tech giants like Google and Amazon twice as wealthy as the British Empire at its peak?

Robert investigates how to safeguard our way of life with Nobel Prize–winning economist Daron Acemoglu. Together, they discuss whether the prescriptions in Acemoglu's influential new book are practical enough to prevent liberal democracy from eroding further.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. https://Accenture.com/Spotify-UK

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Bella Soames and Tom Whiter
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Why is it taking so long to get people trained in AI? Should we be devolving education powers to employers instead of Mayors? Is the replacement for the Apprenticeship levy any good? Why is it so hard for companies here to raise money from British investors?

Steph talks to Euan Blair, CEO of Multiverse - the UK’s first British EdTech business valued at over a billion - about the future of work. Plus some spicy chat on Multiverse’s Ofsted rating and why Euan’s dad was wrong to push for 50% of young people into university when he was PM.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. https://Accenture.com/Spotify-UK

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Bella Soames and Tom Whiter
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can the government persuade UK companies and households to invest and spend their record cash holdings? Why is Donald Trump’s unpredictability failing to destroy economic growth? Why is it so difficult to assess whether a lethal AI bubble currently exists?

Robert discusses the risks and opportunities in today’s world of extreme financial, technological and political risks with Karen Ward, chief market strategist for JP Morgan in EMEA.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. https://Accenture.com/Spotify-UK

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Bella Soames and Tom Whiter
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why do secondary schools fail so many young people? Whose fault is it? What does good vocational education look like? He says the hard hat is just as important as the graduation cap, but does Andy Burnham really get it?

With A-Level and GCSE results due out, Steph’s launched a day to celebrate the millions of people getting vocational qualifications. To mark this we take the show to a thriving business in Cornwall to look at how they’re solving their skills problem. Also, Robert and Steph unpick the crisis in British education and come up with bold solutions.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. https://Accenture.com/Spotify-UK.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

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How fixable is the schism between the rich developed countries, led by the US, and the faster-growing BRICS+ group, led by China, Russia, and India? Can these emerging powerhouses truly detach themselves from the dollar-dominated financial system? And on which critical issues must we work collaboratively with them to avoid global disaster?

Robert and Steph chat with Lord Jim O’Neill, the former Goldman Sachs chief economist who coined the influential BRIC concept 25 years ago. He has recently launched a new strategy platform and think tank, BRICS+ Thinking, designed to encourage pragmatic entente and policy cooperation with these fast-growing, powerful economies. As an influential crossbench peer who also has the ear of Andy Burnham, his views matter.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. https://Accenture.com/Spotify-UK

Email: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠the⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Chris Sawyer and Tom Whiter
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Are we in an AI bubble? Does it matter that Chinese AI firms are banned from using American chips? How big is the chance of an AI crash? Can an AI business survive without energy generation capabilities?



Azeem Azhar – the founder of the leading research platform Exponential View – joins us to tell us about his report on the state of the AI economy. Plus, Robert and Steph find out what Azeem learnt about AI from a visit to a Chinese night club with the Moonshot gang.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. https://Accenture.com/Spotify-UK

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Chris Sawyer and Tom Whiter

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What parts of AI does the UK have to control to secure ourselves against enemies? Does Burnham understand how important AI is for growth and security? Are entrepreneurs less welcome in the UK now? Why should the government support a ‘freedom to fail’ funding and business culture? 

Matt Clifford wrote Starmer’s AI action plan.  He is a tech investor and co-founder of the billion dollar business Entrepreneurs First. He talks to Robert and Steph about UK AI policy and chairing the organisation ARIA that hands out government funding for fundamental tech research. Plus find out what re-freezing the arctic has to do with all this.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. https://Accenture.com/Spotify-UK

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Chris Sawyer and Tom Whiter
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How has Donald Trump got away with bringing in new tariffs when the last lot were ruled unlawful? Why is the UK in a worse position than the EU now? Are trade wars always bad? Had anyone ever won one without harming themselves? Are we ever going to get back to free trade?

Robert and Steph are joined by economist and FT columnist Soumaya Keynes, self-confessed trade nerd and author of ‘How to win a trade war’ to evaluate the damage from Trump’s new wave of tariffs on 60 countries.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. https://Accenture.com/Spotify-UK

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan BonhamProducer: Isabelle BougeardExec Producers: Chris Sawyer and Tom Whiter
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John Healey is the Chancellor to increase defence spending to 3% of GDP, but how will he pay for it? Would war bonds do the trick? Is a cut in electricity VAT and a rise in income tax thresholds helping the right people? What will it take to build enough council houses?

With the surprise appointment of former defence secretary John Healey as Burnham's new Chancellor, we look at whether he can revive the UK. Plus Robert and Steph wonder whether the hidden hand of Gordon Brown is behind Healey's appointment.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Chris Sawyer and Tom Whiter
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What should the government be doing to get us AI ready? How do we make sure people co-exist with AI and aren't just replaced by it? What role should trade unions have? What are 'tech towns' and how important are they in the AI race?

Nobel prize winning economist Simon Johnson is back to tell us about his role as the chair of the government’s AI Institute which will use workplace data shared by over thirty major corporations to track, in real-time, how AI adoption is shifting job availability, wage growth, and macroeconomic productivity across the UK.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Chris Sawyer and Tom Whiter
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What impact would a 2% wealth tax on people with £10 million have? If you tax the rich more will it bring down the cost of living for everyone else? How will this help the shortfall of affordable homes? What about the North South divide? Will it reduce the one million NEETs the country has? Will it grow the economy?

 Inequality economist Gary Stevenson is back to tell us why taxing millionaires is the way to make things fairer. Robert and Steph have a lively debate about whether wealth taxes are enough.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Chris Sawyer and Tom Whiter
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If fiscal devolution is central to Burnham’s plans, how do we make sure the money is not wasted by mayors and councils? How can Burnham avoid market mayhem if he invests significantly more? Would it be crazy to break up the Treasury? Why is scrapping the pensions triple lock essential?

Former U.K. Treasury Minister and ex Goldman Sachs chair Jim O’Neill has been advising Andy Burnham on the hard choices he’ll have to make as PM. Steph and Robert talk to him about Manchesterism and the need to slaughter four sacred cows .

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Chris Sawyer and Tom Whiter

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Is it fair that city traders can make loads of money betting on the economy’s demise? Are people with working class backgrounds better at trading? How do you go from making millions on a trade floor to becoming obsessed with wealth inequality?

In the first of our two-part series, we sit down with economist Gary Stevenson. He tells us how he made millions by betting on our economic decline, and why he transitioned from a high-stakes trader to a man on a mission to tax millionaires more-a journey explored in his new Channel 4 documentary, How to Get Filthy Rich."

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Chris Sawyer and Tom Whiter
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why are some countries richer than others, even though money, people and ideas can flow freely round the world? Why is it so hard for a country to turn things around and become rich? Are illiberal leaders like Trump good for their economy? What role do sovereign wealth funds play?

Nobel prize winning economist Simon Johnson gives us his theory on the damage extractive institutions do to wealth disparity. As a leading professor at MIT and former chief economist at the IMF, Robert and Steph quiz him on how the history of colonisation has shaped world economics and what can be done about it.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Chris Sawyer and Tom Whiter
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How do we unlock trillions of pounds of long term capital and keep it in the UK? What can we learn from a brewery in Newcastle and the Vimto factory in Manchester? Why don’t more people invest in start-ups and scale-ups? Is it all about tax incentives?  

Nigel Wilson is the former CEO of the financial giant Legal and General who has funnelled billions of pounds of pension and insurance money into regional regeneration projects. He tells us why it’s not a charity case, but a huge investment opportunity that could grow the whole UK economy. And why he thinks Burnham is the only politician who gets regional economics.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Chris Sawyer and Tom Whiter
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How much can Burnham re-engineer the fiscal rules? Should he stick to a manifesto that has already been trampled over? Who should he choose to be chancellor? Will the markets approve? 

The former director of the IFS is back to tell us about the constraints and opportunities the new prime minister will have to get the economy growing and improve living standards. Listen to Robert and Steph’s interview with Paul Johnson.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producer: Chris Sawyer

General Manager: Tom Whiter
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Why are each of us £15,000 a year worse off than we should be? What can we learn from the US about housing? Can ‘Manchesterism’ work across the UK? How much is the triple lock state pension holding back young people? 

Paul Johnson, former director of the IFS, is back to tell us about his new research on The Prosperity Gap and what it means for the new Prime Minister. Plus why Count Binface should be considered for housing minister.  

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producer: Chris Sawyer

General Manager: Tom Whiter
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Can Andy Burnham’s civil service employ fewer but more productive officials? Is it fair to blame Brexit and Covid for the rising headcount? Is the government buying British the best growth policy? How the government can save £30bn a year by being more efficient.

Tech boss Stephen Kelly - former CEO of Sage Group - tells us about working with David Cameron’s government to make £50bn in public sector efficiency savings. Plus find out why he thinks he was sent to the wrong building for a government meeting. Listen to Robert and Steph’s interview.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Senior Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Chris Sawyer and Tom Whiter
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Should political leaders show us their tax returns in detail? Are the financial questions concerning Farage about tax or something else? Which politicians were careless and which were more culpable?

Robert and Steph chat with Dan Neidle who reveals his investigations into the financial affairs of several high-profile politicians.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Exec Producers: Chris Sawyer and Tom Whiter
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Will all the rich people leave if we slap a wealth tax on them? How have plans for a 5% billionaire tax in California gone down? Is tax the best way to redistribute wealth more fairly?

Former tax lawyer Dan Neidle is back to tell us why he thinks the theories of influential economists Gabriel Zucman and Thomas Piketty are all pie in the sky. So what would he do instead? Listen to Robert and Steph’s interview with him to find out.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠

Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Exec Producers: Chris Sawyer and Tom Whiter
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices